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Leader to Hook Knots


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#1 fritz

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 04:27 PM

Been re-thinking my knots lately after reading articles on same subject in recent magaizines. One caution is that the "improved clinch knot" is weaker than some other knots. I assume the caution refers to the knot slipping under tension. I have not experienced lost fish as a result of the knot slipping when tying on tippets from 5-7X. Typically, the leader will break first. What are your experiences? Should the caution about the clinch knot being weaker be revised to inlclude leader size limits say tippets over 4X? What knot is your favorite knot for this connection?

#2 zugbug

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 04:44 PM

I usually tie the regular clinch knot, not even bothering to improve it, for hooks 12 and smaller. Usually I'm using 5x or smaller tippet. I've never had the knot slip or fail. For larger hooks, I use the improved clinch knot, as I find the size of the eye of the hook has as much to do with the slippage as the size of the tippet.

If you tie these knots correctly and wet them before tightening, you shouldn't have problem.

Zug

#3 Allan

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 04:56 PM

I've always used the 'improved clinch knot' but have read that the 'regular clinch knot' works better. Not sure if that claim is true but I'm going to simplify my tippet to fly connection by going to the 'regular'. I figure that if the connecting knot breaks, not slips, then it would've done so with either knot. Might as well make it easier for myself if it doesn't matter.

Allan

#4 skondolf

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:04 PM

I just started using a Davy Knot last year and haven't had any problems with it but I don't get out as much as I'd like. YMMV. I like the knot as it's a quick tie and easy on the eyes. Here's a video if you want to check it out:

http://www.itinerant...ng/davyknot.wmv

#5 zugbug

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 03:09 AM

Steve, nice looking knot. I'll have to practice that one.

Zug

#6 Dusty Miller

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 04:08 AM

I've been using the Orvis knot for a few seasons. It's easy to tie and I haven't lost any flies due to a poor knot. (Time was I'd often wind up with a pig tail at the end of my leader due to poor knot tying.)

Your pal,
Dusty

#7 fritz

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 08:16 PM

Hey Dusty...........the Orvis knot is one of those knots i was going to try this fishing season. Good to know that you've had success with it.

Skondolf: that's a pretty neat video. have to try that one too

#8 skondolf

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 08:52 PM

From what I've read on the Davy knot it was developed by Davy Wotton. He developed this knot as a competitor in many fly-fishing tournaments as he had to be able to change flies quickly but still have a knot that wouldn't slip. I've also read that you have to make sure it's cinched up tightly to the hook eye.

And I don't wanna hear it if it DOES fail and you lose the fish of a lifetime :shock: :wink: :P

#9 Dusty Miller

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 09:10 PM

Hey, fritz...
As we say it Brooklyn, "Try it, you'll like it." What I like about it is it's so simple even I can remember how to tie it. Tying instructions are available on line, but I don't want to rile the gods by posting a link. Just google it.

I was wondering if the Orvis is really different than the Davy. They look pretty similar. I have to find an expert in topology to figure that out.

Good luck,
Your pal,
Dusty

#10 fritz

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 11:58 PM

Continuing the dialogue..................what do you guys who tie knots that contact the eye of the hook think about leaving a slight gap, enough to allow the nymph/wet fly to wiggle naturally with less hindrance by the tippet?

#11 1lenny

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 01:13 PM

Fritz, I like the loop rather than the clinch up tight against the eye.
Try this--tie on a wooly bugger with a clinch and pull it through the water, noticing the action. Now try it with a loop or "loose" clinch. To my eye it moves better with the looser connection. Even Lefty likes it.

#12 andy

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 12:01 PM

It's true that the loop knot gives the fly more movement. The down side is its strength. You'll find that you experience a lot of knot breakage on hard strikes. :cry:

#13 1lenny

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 01:16 PM

Yo, Andy, I really hope to have that problem soon.
What do you think about a clinch knot where you don't snug it tight to the eye? Still as strong?

#14 andy

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 11:57 AM

1lenny: I never used the untightened clinch in place of the loop knot. It seems to me that the clinch would tighten on its own from casting and retrieving, hence, it would offer no advantage. :(

#15 1lenny

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:12 PM

Yeah, I get that all the time. Anyone have a solution?--a loop that's strong enough?

#16 Joe D

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 05:20 PM

I frequently use a loop knot for streamers without any breaking problems. The heavier tippet is what I'm sure accounts for this.

For dries, wets, and nymphs I use a variety of knots, the most frequent being clinch, turle and orvis knots. They all work fine for me.

Joe

#17 1lenny

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:34 PM

Thanks. By the way, I really like that author, Gierach.

#18 TomTrout

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 07:59 PM

I use the Duncan loop knot for fishing Bass Bugs and Streamers, and have never had one fail. I like this knot because it's a slip knot and when setting the hook the knot tightens up on the hook eye. I actually use this knot on most of my setup. When not tied as a loop I think its called the uni-knot. Backing to line, line to leader knot much easier than a nail knot and I've yet to have one fail. I got this from reading and watching Dave Whitlocks books and videos. I even use it on my saltwater setups.
For lighter tippets 5x and thinner I use the clinch knot, I find it hard even after wetting to tighten the improved clinch on thin material without burning it. You can definitly see the damage to your tippet when it happens. I use the improved on heavier tippets.

Now how would you be able to leave the clinch knot improved or not, not tightened up, to create a loop and be sure that it doesn't unravel instead of tightening up on a strike? Wouldn't you have to leave the tag end unusually long?

Tom

#19 Zap

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 10:45 AM

I'm wih Dusty on thsi one. I also have been using the orvis knot !
Quick and easy -with little build up at the head of the fly
.

#20 andy

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:59 AM

I think he was referring to the Improved Clinch knot which can indeed be tied as a loop but would tighten on its own through casting and retrieving. :D




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