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SERIOUS THREAT TO THE FISHING COMMUNITY


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#1 Ellen

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 01:24 AM

SEROUS THREAT TO THE FISHING COMMUNITY-An artlicle appeared in the Times Herald Record this past week and stated that mining interests (the Gas Drilling Industry) wishes to withdraw 1,000,000 (that's one million folks) gallons of water PER DAY from the East Branch River at Pea's Eddy. They wish to take the water, mix it with chemicals and force it into the ground to pump out the gas. The water would then be collected into large settlement basins. This plan would seriously damage the fishing and is such a serious concern that we all need to become involved in any way we can. Please contact all your friends and any enviornmental organizations that you belong to in order to stop this plan in it's tracks.
Dennis and Ellen-Catskill Flies

#2 JCfly

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 12:37 AM

Ellen, is this just in the planning/application stage? If so, now is the perfect time to start contacting your local Assembly member, and Senator, to voice your opposition. This is not an option, it's a must if you have any hope of seeing this plan defeated. Politicians take note of letters, e-mails, and phone calls for good reason. It means people are watching. People vote. You get the idea.

Also contact Assemblyman Robert Sweeney of L.I. - he is the Chairman of the Assembly's Environmental Conservation Committee. He has a strong record of helping the fishing community.

Here is a link to Assemblyman Sweeney: http://assembly.stat....us/mem/?ad=011

Don't just sit there....... start typing!

#3 easterncaster

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 12:03 PM

"the new flood control plan"

#4 Ellen

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:20 AM

You also might let the Roscoe Rockland Chamber of commerce know how you feel about this issue so they can take a stand on the matter. Their address is roscoechamber@gmail.com. Yes everybody, contact everyone you can. We appreciate all your information and imput into this issue. The impact study is of critical importance to stop this undertaking.
Dennis

#5 stimyg

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 04:40 AM

This is just upstream of my house. Needless to say, I'm greatly concerned.

I'm not sure what the best avenue of protest might be. I believe the DRBC will be having hearings on this shortly.

If anyone has any ideas on how best to protest, or organize, please write it here or PM me.

Tim

#6 Guest__*

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 12:09 PM

Stimyg. there is a meeting on 12/4 in Sullivan county if you can attend that would be a good idea.The more folks that show up and Voice their concerns the better !

Howdy,

Just a reminder that the public hearing to comment on pending gas drilling in the Upper Delaware Watershed is THIS THURSDAY, December 4, at Sullivan County Community College, Fieldhouse, 112 College Road, Loch Sheldrake, NY. Doors will open at 4:30 p.m., with brief remarks by DEC staff starting at 5:15 p.m. Public comments will be taken beginning at 6 p.m.

* Be sure to sign up to speak when you arrive. People were limited to five minutes at some of the other hearings.
* It is best to also send written comments. They need to be received by the close of business on 12/15/2008

Submit comments to:
Scope Comments
Bureau of Oil & Gas Regulation
NYSDEC Division of Mineral Resources
625 Broadway, 3rd Floor
Albany, NY 12233-6500
or email them to dmnog@gw.dec.state.ny.us with
"Scope Comments" as the Subject line

For a copy of the scope of work, go to:
Draft Scope for Draft Supplemental Generic Environmental Impact Statement on the Oil, Gas and Solution Mining Regulatory Program - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation

What should I say?
1. Pick a topic, or topics, that concern you.
2. Try to ask the DEC to study specific things about
that topic.
3. Ask them to review the literature, reports, and
impacts in other states where there has been
horizontal drilling and high-volume hydraulic
fracturing in shale for many years.
4. Ask them to provide raw data, their methodology,
and conclusions in the new GEIS
5. Ask them to do a new GEIS, not a supplement to
a GEIS that is totally out of date and irrelevant
6. Ask them to do a new draft scope of work with the
topics under review AND the methodology they
intend to use, as required by the SEQRA
regulations. (The current draft scope of work is
flawed in that it never mentions how they are going
to study any of the topics)

NO DRILLING IN THE DELAWARE WATERSHED...NOT ONE DROP....

#7 stimyg

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 02:24 AM

I'm writing from the meeting. Miracles of wireless.

The DEC people say they really do take the emails into account so I encourage you all to write to the email address above. Specifically I'd say you should mention fly fishing and protecting the trout. Been a lot of talk about the GEIS and fracking fluids but very little about fly fishing concerns. I think if they even got a half dozen emails saying simply "protect the trout!!" they would take it into account.

#8 Leadfeathers

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:23 AM

I have a few question for the board before I email my objections.

What does a million gallons per day translate into cubic feet per second each day? What will be the decrease in CFS below Peas Eddy? Will the draw down be over 24 hours or only certain times of the day? Will the draw down be the same in the summer and drought years? Is a million gallons just a start for bigger draw downs latter?

Will the water draw down on the East Branch mean more water for the West Branch to meet requirements down river? Can the reservoir handle it? If it does provide more water for the West Branch will the increased water mean better fishing in the west and main stem?

Will the draw down require that more water be released into the East Branch instead of the West Branch improving the fishing in the lower East Branch?

They need to get 1750 CFS down river. This may not be as bad as it sounds. I don't know. What are your thoughts?

Leadfeathers

#9 Luzerne

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 11:41 AM

This would be mainly from the Susquehanna River and it's tributaries

Water withdrawal in Luzerne County denied
A natural gas drilling company’s request to become the first to receive approval for consuming millions of gallons of river water in Lackawanna and Luzerne counties was denied Thursday.
BY JOSH MROZINSKI
STAFF WRITER
Published: Friday, December 5, 2008 4:06 AM EST
A natural gas drilling company’s request to become the first to receive approval for consuming millions of gallons of river water in Lackawanna and Luzerne counties was denied Thursday.

Chesapeake Appalachia was seeking approval from a multi-state environmental regulatory body for consumptive use of up to 20 million gallons of water per day from six counties in New York and 14 counties in Pennsylvania, including Luzerne and Lackawanna.

“Chesapeake’s application was the first one from a natural gas company requesting consumptive use from Lackawanna and Luzerne counties,” Susquehanna River Basin Commission spokeswoman Susan Obleski said.

The Susquehanna River Basin Commission has special powers to regulate consumptive water use in the watershed. Consumptive water use includes evaporation, irrigation or manufacturing processes or water being trucked away or diverted out of the basin.

While the commission on Thursday ruled that Chesapeake cannot use water from Luzerne and Lackawanna counties, the group did give approval to Chesapeake and three other companies to consume up to 17.5 million gallons of water per day from the basin in several counties throughout the region. That is enough water to fill about 35 Olympic-size swimming pools every day.

Approval was also given Thursday to two gas companies to withdraw up to 1.11 million gallons of water per day from area waterways. Prior to Thursday’s meeting, gas companies were permitted to remove more than 41 million gallons of water per day from the basin.

“The lion’s share of the water is going to be used for hydraulic fracture and a small portion of the water is going to be used to drill wells,” Pennsylvania Oil & Gas Association President Stephen Rhoads said.

He added water used to develop a well is reused, treated or disposed.

Several millions of gallons of water mixed with sand and chemicals are used during hydraulic fracturing to blast cracks in the mile-deep Marcellus Shale to release natural gas.

“In the coming year, you will start to see more drilling and hydraulic fracturing activity,” Rhoads said.

jmrozinski@timesshamrock.com

#10 Leadfeathers

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:21 PM

An answer to some of my questions. What will the draw down of a million gallons of water per day mean to us in cubic feet per second (a measure that we all can relate to).

There are 7.48 gallons of water in a cubic foot. Therefore one million gallons divided by 7.48 gallons equals 133,689 cubic feet in a million gallons. Lets round this to 134,000.

If the million gallons were taken evenly throughout the day that would mean that 5583 cubic feet would be taken each hour (134,000 cubic feet divided by 24 hours) or 93 cubic feet per minute (5583 cubic feet per hour divided by 60 minutes per hour). The amount of water taken each second would be 1.55 cubic feet (93 cubic feet per minute divided by 60 seconds).

Below is monthly mean data for 2007 from USGS measured at Fishes Eddy:
MONTH CFS
May 748
Jun 603
Jul 482
Aug 479
Sep 686

If my calculations are correct we will not loose much water on a CFS basis.
I don't think a wise old chub could tell the difference.

Leadfeathers

#11 Kilgour Farms

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 01:51 PM

1,000,000 gallons = 1.5cfs. Thats 1.5cfs going past you every second for a 24 hour period.

Golf course uses 50,000,000 gallons/day

nuclear power plant uses 150,000,000 gallons/day

Last I looked the Susquehanna was flowing at 230,000cfs.

#12 stimyg

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:40 PM

Here are some totally uneducated, complete guesses on how it would effect the fishing:

- 1,000,000 gallons per day, sounds like it'll probably be taken out via truck; each truck holds 5,000 gallons, so that would equal 200 trucks a day taking out water, and trucking it to the drilling site. Doesn't sound like a bucolic fishing experience.

- 1,000,000 gallons per day of water being mixed with toxic fracking fluids, that would then be injected deep under the earth, and then what happens to it remains unclear -- could stay there safely, could seep back into the water supply, could be extracted into uncovered holding tanks above ground with the risk of being flooded back into the rivers, could be safely recycled, who knows. You'll hear tons of arguments either way about what may or may not happen to all of this water. But sure sounds like it could be a serious risk to sensitive trout environments. And that's 1,000,000 of this stuff ever day.

- Disturbances to the local fishing -- just logically seems like such a big operation would screw up the fishing for the surrounding area.

And here's the biggest thing: This is just the very FIRST application for water withdrawal. There would likely be many many more to follow. So even though it might seem like a small CFS number to begin with, and 200 trucks per day might only wreck the immediate locale where they're driving, multiply by that by future possible withdrawals and you see how you'd like the DEC to impose some strict oversight right from the beginning.

Basically, seems to me like sh*t happens, and there's a thousand ways this natural gas drilling thing could go very wrong, and only a few ways it could go right. And so the DEC and DRBC had better be hyper vigilant. And out of all the competing interests, seems like fishermen are the only ones who're gonna speak for the fishing.

Just seems like common sense to me.

#13 sociallyacceptable

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 08:00 PM

Golf course uses 50,000,000 gallons/day



I worked for five years as an assistant superintendent at an 18-hole high end golf course that opened in 2000. The average water use on the hottest/driest summer day/night day when everything (greens, tees, fairways, roughs, surrounds, etc.) was watered was less than 300,000-gallons. I can't speak to anything else and don't know if it even matters....but 50,000,000 gallons of water a day for a golf course is a huge exaggeration.

#14 flymank

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:28 AM

flymank here-and I agree with the last poster for what its worth as I am a former golf course super and have been involved with the const. and maint. of 5 g.c and have never exceeded 400k/gal. per day and its usually less than half of that flymank out

#15 Ellen

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 12:55 AM

The biggest concern is the unknown chemicals (even the DEC doesn't know what they are-they are called propriatary) which remain in the water system as most are not removed from the ground. These chemicals will eventually filter into all our water supplies and do severe harm to the health of our population. That which is withdrawn can be run through local sewer plants. The amount of water taken from the stream is not the biggest issue but the health of our families is!!!! As far as DEC oversight, how often have we heard from them-we don't have the manpower or the money.
Dennis-Catskill Flies

#16 Kilgour Farms

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 05:12 AM

Hydraulic Fracturing report:

http://www.thefriend... ... 1.2008.pdf

#17 easterncaster

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 05:32 AM

let 'em talk to the city... see if they will sell it from the reservoirs.

#18 JCfly

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 01:47 AM

The number of replies to this thread in comparison to the number of views is pretty pale. Remember that DEC Commissioner Grannis is a fly fisherman, and just may be watching.

Contact your reps, and post it here. Let them know we're watching them.

#19 Kilgour Farms

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:56 AM

What do you base your conclusion mentioned in this thread? The DEC and DRBC will require disclosure of chemicals.

Does anyone know what concentrations these chemicals are use in? Did you know that any production fluids will be collected in sealed containers and taken away to processing facilities? Did you know most contaminations occured at the surface.

I have been researching this for over two years now and I'm not an expert but I do know that with the right oversight and a few regulations such as closed loop water system every body wins.

Don't get sucked into the hysteria that abounds in some of the local papers and groups who distourt the truths to seek there own goals usually different from the main stream.

Take the time to learn what you can about drilling because I think you will find like I did, it an be done and it can be done right. The gas companies are not here to destroy everything. Once the drilling starts I think you will find them willing to go the extra mile to ensure a safe and productive venture.

All or nothing attitutes usually get you just that, nothing.

#20 eelweir

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 07:57 PM

Whether gas drilling is safe is NOT for the gas companies to decide. It is for you and I to decide as American citizens, along with the state agencies responsible for regulating such things. Putting your faith in the gas companies to “do the right thing” is beyond naive – it’s downright dangerous. You have until Dec. 15th to comment to the DEC. You can do it by emailing: 'dmnog@gw.dec.state.ny.us' in the subject line write: Scope Comments.

You should ask that the DEC draft an entirely new Environmental Impact Statement and then tell them why.

Some of the obvious reasons include use of water, disposal of contaminated fracking fluids, controlling runoff, threats to fisheries, groundwater, drinking water etc. If you need more info, Catskill Mountainkeeper seems to be a good source of info: http://www.catskillmountainkeeper.org

This is your one opportunity to comment. Please take a few minutes to do the right thing. The trout and your grandkids thank you.




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