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Rod question??? Can a fast rod hurt your casting?


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#1 Judge6266

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Posted 06 January 2006 - 03:45 PM

Basic Question for those who hate long posts(for the rest the whole story is below)

Is a fast rod a bad thing (I have a G. Loomis Stream dance HLS 9 ft 5 wt rod) durring a casting class I was told by the instructor that the rod is too fast and it would be best if I went and got another rod which was slower. I was looking to add another rod either this year or next so I am open to the idea but here are the questions I hope the board can help me with.

Questions
Can a fast rod be a bad thing and should I really look into a slower rod?

if so, please recommed a slower Rod.

I looked a T&T Helix, but It seem fast too, I am not sure why I like fast rods but everytime a pick a rod it seems to be a fast rod.

The Whole STORY
OK here is the reason for my question my wife bought me a fly casting class for my birthday (3 sessions, intermediate class) the first class was the basics, rate yourself, what do you want to improve, and we practiced casting with just a handel of a rod to make sure the basic casting stroke was good, need less to say there was a few bugs in my stroke and I was told I was rushing and over powering my stroke and a bit too much wrist to boot. OK not exactly news to me and we worked on fixing my casting stroke the next class is when we had real problems.

For the second class we had to bring our own set-ups rod, reel, and line. Thinking I had a great set up which I enjoy and spent a pretty penny on I figured I was set. The instructor had each of us cast a few times and made suggestions on how to improve and what items we needed to cover in this class and he took notes for the last class which is a personal one on one 1hr class. There is 10 people in the class I was one of the last people to go, most people go and they are told they used too must wrist, their cast is too long stop no further than 10 O'Clock, they are waiting too long for the rod to load or not long enought, etc. I got YOU HAVE THE WRONGE TYPE OF ROD, it is too fast, that is no good for trout fishing that is a saltwwater rod. Now I have a G. Loomis Stream dance HLS 9 ft 5 wt rod, it was marketed as a rod designed for trout, it is a 5 wt rod it seemed like a trout rod to me and it is not cheap and now I do not kow what to do. The instructor said I will never learn to cast property with this rod and it will hurt me to use it for trout fishing. I will admitt the reason I went was I was having problems with my casting, it was not as acurate as I wanted and I could not cast as far as some of my fish buddys. (one of the reasons I bought the streamdrance rod to help me cast further. It is really the ROD that is to blame??????????? I would hate to stop using a $600 rod and go spend more money to replace it, but if the rod is the reason I can't cast as well as I would like I guess that is what I will do.

#2 Soft-hackle

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Posted 06 January 2006 - 05:41 PM

Judge,
It is my understanding that it is easier to learn casting on a moderate action rod. Once you learn, with a little adjustment, a fast action rod can be cast and fished, too. The action is, often, a matter of preference. Some fishermen like a fast action, while other like moderate. Faster actions supposedly add distance to your casts while moderate actions help to cast more delicately. I would not say, however, it'd "hurt you" to use it for trout fishing. Action selection also depends on what you're fishing for- how large the fish are. Faster actions have a lot of stiffness with the action being, mostly in the tip, and if you are fishing for small fish on small streams, you don't need that.

I'm sure you'll get some more input from others, here, too.

My best,
Mark

#3 Joe D

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 04:15 AM

Judge,

A fast rod is not a bad thing in and of itself. It will not hurt your casting. It will require different timing and perhaps greater application of power. "Power" is a poor description but for lack of a better word I'm using it, but what I really mean is speed of your stroke and a smooth suddeness to your "stop".

Your hesitation will be shorter, only because your line will be going faster. The best rod for you is one that matches your natural casting stroke and feels and works good for you. What you're used to means a lot too.

After that, the various rod speeds come into play for various fishing/casting applications. Your rod is fine for trout fishing.

IMHO, the whole clock thing is good for telling time. It works in casting if you only ever want to cast a particular rod a specific distance and nothing else.

The quality of the rod does makes a difference and a good stick will shorten the learning curve. But that is to a point. In the beginning, you can start with what isn't a great rod, but rather a good decent rod. In today's market all of the rod makers, T & T included, have inexpensive entry level rods that are way better than the first graphite rods they came out with.

Lessons are the right direction to speed up the learning curve. Take what works for you and practice. Then practice some more. But don't over do it. You're better off practicing ten minutes a day than for an hour a week. Leave a rod strung in the garage or on the deck and cast for ten minutes a day before or after work. You might even take a rod along and cast for a few minutes on your lunch break. You'll be amazed how much better you'll be in just a couple of weeks.

To answer your last question, " is it really the rod that is to blame?" No, not unless it was a real piece of junk, and it's not.

Hope this was of some help...

Joe

#4 JB

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 04:51 AM

Let's see the question is, "Can a fast rod hurt your casting?"

If you are right now bad at casting, the answer would be no.
Could it slow down your development? Depends on what you are trying to develop? Fast rods can make the learning process, take a bit longer, due to the fact that they are less forgiving to your technique, but eventually you will learn to cast this rod, and then, and only then IMHO, will you be able to decide if you want to use this rod as your main rod or like a lot of us do, we choose a particular rod for a particular scenario. Part of the individual angler's growth in this sport is learning how to use various rods, lines, flies etc. to achieve their goals.

Case in point: Back a few years ago, I purchased a Sage 590XP, a real "rocket launcher" of a rod. It took me about a month to adjust my stroke to this rod, but I did and I did not "hurt" my casting with my other rods that I fish and many of these rods are Bamboo!
Now true I have been at this game awhile, so experience plays a major part.

Also I am not a supporter of "Lawn Casting" for practice as, fly lines behave and "pick-up" alot different on "Fescue" than they do on water! However, with that being said, lawn casting, is better than NO practice casting at all.

Also "most" fast action rods will not "protect" a light tippet, they way a softer action rod will, this can be something else to consider, depending on the conditions you fish.

My 2 cents,

JB

#5 Luzerne

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 09:37 AM

In the words of Mr. Kreh, fast rods don't cause casting mistakes the just cause the mistakes that are already there to happen faster. My advise is find an instructor that will help YOU not critisize your equipment. With the competition in the flyrod market today there are very few poor $600 flyrods. If you get to Somerset, put yourself on the Sage casting Analyzier it really works. It told me I was doing about 8 things wrong, but since I've been doing these 8 things wrong for 53 years and the fly goes where I want it to, lands the way I want it to and occasionaly catches fish I decided years ago that it isn't pretty but it sure is fun. CF has some real nice medium action rods, stop in and try a slower rod. And stay off the grass.

#6 outdoorsman

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Posted 07 January 2006 - 02:15 PM

Fast rods create very tight loops and high line speeds, and therefore can cast very well. They can be real cannons.

But as others have said, beginners starting out may not really be able to cast a fast rod effectively, and it looks like it has been explained very well above so that I do not need to repeat what everybody else has said! :)

#7 outdoorsman

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 12:32 AM

JP,

The key to not hanging up on the back cast is either to be able to roll cast a very long roll cast (you would be amazed at how far some people can roll cast...I surely am not that good at it) or to shoot a lot of line on the final forward cast, without too many, or very long backcasts.

A fast rod can create a very tight loop and can therefore really shoot line well. Also, a small loop is very helpful in the wind (I'm sure you knew that, but I was repeating it for those who don't ;)).

OD

#8 Judge6266

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 02:59 PM

Thanks for all the great info, I love that rod and I will learn to cast with it, for now I have an entry level gatti stick that is much slower and softer to practice with in the mean time, the instructor appeared to be happier with it and said my casting stroke is much better with that rod.

Thanks again for all the wonderful info.

#9 zugbug

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 05:31 PM

Anyway to tell if the rod you have is fast or slow action? I have a low end T&T and a used Sage I picked up years ago. Both 5 weight, but cast quite a bit differently. I prefer the T&T on bigger water where I have to cast farther. It seems stiffer. Does it have to do with where the rod bends when under pressure?

#10 dead drift

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 04:33 PM

To become a great trout caster and fisherman you have to learn how to handle and fish a soft rod. It is impractible and almost impossible to effectively mend, curve,arrow, shoot,helicopter, set hooks with light tippet, and perform fish catching methods for difficult fish without one. The reason there are so many lousey casters and fisherman is that they learn and fish with tarpon action rocket launchers.This is not an opinion! Like golf, the equipement keeps getting better and better and the participents keep getting worse.

#11 outdoorsman

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:11 AM

To become a great trout caster and fisherman you have to learn how to handle and fish a soft rod.


Entirely untrue. I've caught plenty of trout on fast rods...they have their place as well. A good fisherman can fish any action rod, fast, medium, or slow, and a good fisherman also knows when to take a different action rod.

#12 catskilljohn

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 02:08 AM

Zugbug,
I am no expert in rod design,but I know the answer to your question. The faster a rod is,the less flex it has overall. A "slow" rod would be one that the entire shaft flexed,right to the handle,and a fast one,only the very upper end of the tip. The more accurate way to see it is like what you mentioned,stringing the rod and attaching the line to a weight on the floor,and gently lifting the rod,watching the flex. I have seen guys touch the tip of the rod on the ceiling of the shop,and push up to[ :shock: ]to see the flex. Hope this helps,CJ




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